nuraicha | On fanfiction and feedback

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On fanfiction and feedback

Hello!

Today I stumbled across this post on Tumblr and I thought some of you would be interested in reading it. It's about the importance of leaving feedback to the writers so they can know people are reading and liking/disliking their stories. It's mainly applied to Tumblr (and frankly, I've tried Tumblr as a fic platform and I think it's *awful* for interacting with the writer, so I can't understand why this post has been made in the first place because, if I wrote something like this, the first thing would be: read/write in platforms that allow you/the reader to have easy means of giving you feedback... But well, that's another matter alltogether), but it has several points that I agree with and I find interesting. I especially like the point about specific feedback; yes please! There isn't anything better that knowing *exactly* what worked for each reader. Of course, you can't ask each reader to give you a complete and thorough analysis on your style (god knows I don't do that as often as I would like) but, if there's something you really liked and want to talk about, do it!

However, on the specific feedback matter I don't agree with this line: "Want to influence our next fic? Tell us what you liked about this one and I bet you it will keep showing up!". That sounded to me like if you *have to* write the things as your readers like them. Yes of course, many things can influence in your writing, but just by telling me "I loved X thing" doesn't mean I have to include it the next fic if I don't think it worked. After all, it's our story, isn't it? We can't be complete slaves of our readers.

And now I want to quote the last paragraph fully:

"We can’t do this writing thing without you guys. So thank you so much! Without readers, we’re just talking to ourselves. We love and appreciate you for reading- but we need to know you’re doing it. We need feedback like we need air. Don’t let your favorite writers suffocate! :)"

Opinions and thoughts? I would like to see what my flist thinks of this. And yes, I know I have like tons of messages in my inbox and some are comments here in my LJ that I have to reply, and some PMs, and *hides in shame* I'll get to them, I promise. I'm so sorry for being so absent and not coming back to you at all, but I usually check LJ on my phone and I don't like writing there, so I always tell myself to wait until I get to the laptop to reply to things and... Not enough time to do so. That's the reason why I mostly just read fics (and not many, sorry MS friends) and leave very short comments, because 95% of times I'm on the phone. I'm really sorry, but as you know I graduate in June *maniac laughter of horror* and I'm SO stressed.

Hope you are all okay x

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I so agree with you. When I first started reading here, I did just that, but I found I needed to tell how much I enjoyed reading the stories I read. That's when I first made an account here. I could log in using my Facebook account, which allowed me to leave comments. Ever since that day I've commented on every story I read. Personal posts as well.
Sadly though my comments rarely go beyond the omg variety, although I'm working on that lately.
Safe to say I love all you writers for writing great stories, or for sharing bits of your personal life with us. I will continue reading and commenting.

As a writer, I can tell you that an OMG! comment makes you grin and happy, too. It's like: Yay! I'm generally on the right track! People read and enjoy! *wags-tail*

Sorry sorry for this horribly late reply, but I have been so busy these last months to properly catch up on LJ!

I think it depends on what the writer wants; you know I love long feedback and people dissecting my stories, but I know not everybody can be comfortable doing that or simply they aren't forced to do so. So I agree with stefanyeah there, any kind of comment is welcomed, because it allows you to know people have read and enjoyed (or not) your story. My teacher of Universal Literature once defined literature as "something written that is shared with a public"; so, a story is a story when someone reads it, that's why I consider the interaction between author/reader so important.

And I'll never be able to thank you enough for all your lovely comments and encouragement, honestly Tamar, I'm speaking from my heart.

As I said, I simply cannot read a story and not tell the writer if I enjoyed it or not. And luckily LJ gives us that option. The only time I haven't commented since I created my account was when I read old personal posts.

We're so lucky to have you in the MS community, honestly!

Aren't you a cutie 😊

I totally agree! Sometimes I check my stats and see that like 30 people were on my page, but that I only got 3 comments and sometimes (at least, for me) that's quite discouraging. Lately I put polls under my fic for the people who don't like commenting, and that seems to work...
But I totally agree with what you said!!

And the ''want to influence our next fic? Tell us what you liked about this one and I bet you it will keep showing up!" part is really, really strange...

Sorry sorry for this horribly late reply, but I have been so busy these last months to properly catch up on LJ!

Very discouraging, I know. I was in your same situation when I started, and that's one of the reasons why I think AO3 is most suited to posting, because you can keep count of the visitors your story has were easily; kudos also allow the shy readers to express their opinion without having to comment, so that's good as well. However, I find LJ better when it comes to fic discussion, probably because it's more "homey"? After all, you're writing a comment in another person's blog, so that's more personal than an archive. I have never done a poll for a fic, but I find them a good substitute for kudos here, so I really like that idea.

Good points indeed.

And I'm the same as you with the phone. LJ text boxes and Swype (the keyboard I use, you just swish over the letters and it magically recognises the words. If you're on Android, there are lots of shortcuts, too.) don't like each other too much…

So even if I know, how one thrives on comments, I get lazy, too.

That sounded to me like if you *have to* write the things as your readers like them. Yes of course, many things can influence in your writing, but just by telling me "I loved X thing" doesn't mean I have to include it the next fic if I don't think it worked. After all, it's our story, isn't it? We can't be complete slaves of our readers.
So with you, there. Although, there's future plot point in CC I had been unsure about was totally influenced by the readership. And it'll work out just perfectly. :D Just needs to be written…

Anyways, planned/envisioned plot is planned/envisioned plot. Conversation over.
:P

I sometimes check my stats, too, even more so on AO3. GIVE ME KUUUDDOOOOOS! I'm the Kudomonster! *munch*munch*munch*

Anyways, yes, feedback is good. Constructive criticism is good, too. Can't improve without. Please season it with soft compliments so it doesn't hurt that much. :P

Sorry sorry for this horribly late reply, but I have been so busy these last months to properly catch up on LJ!

The mere presence of autocorrector is a curse for fic commenting in any platform!

You have written so many fics that's difficult to keep track of them! One day I should start reading all of them!

Anyways, yes, feedback is good. Constructive criticism is good, too. Can't improve without. Please season it with soft compliments so it doesn't hurt that much. :P Exactly! The point is having tact; you can give a bad review but it all depends on the tone. After all, we're all persons behind the screens and bad critics hurt, but there's a huge difference between being downright mean or just being honest.

This is something I've been posting a lot about recently myself, as you've seen. It's incredibly disheartening to work long and hard on a long fic and then have no fucking comments whatsoever. Especially as there's a metric fuckton of really badly-written fic in big fandoms that gets a lot of squee when the author can't even spell, and that makes me really upset because they haven't even worked as hard. Like, 5000 hits on a fic where the header is full of typos, what the fuck? Oh, I see, it's in Hannibal and has a popular kink. *sigh*

And if I only wrote what the readers wanted me to write, I'd only ever write piss-drenched underage incest daddy kink. And not a single thoroughly researched historical romance set in medieval Persia with deep insights into medieval Islamic mysticism because only five people will ever care about that:P Tough shit; I want to write about my silly Persians because they are deeper and more interesting and more emotionally satisfying than the somewhat colder and darker Torsten and Laura.

But, yeah. Comments are so important, and fuck posting fanfic on Tumblr anyway--Ao3 is where it's at.

Sorry sorry for this horribly late reply, but I have been so busy these last months to properly catch up on LJ!

Especially as there's a metric fuckton of really badly-written fic in big fandoms that gets a lot of squee when the author can't even spell, and that makes me really upset because they haven't even worked as hard. Oh god, I know. This makes me so angry! I'm not by any means the best writer out there, or have the best style, grammar or spelling skills (not even in Spanish, although I consider my spelling in that language almost top notch), but it pains me when people with stories that I consider weak plot-wise, badly written or are simply full of mistakes get a ton of comments and I'm sitting here making a party every time I get a single kudos. But that's the curse of being in small fandoms or, in my case, writing in a language with little presence on AO3.

Well, in a way I think Torsten/Laura is a very interesting ship to write about, because they're characters with a complex psyche and you have pushed yourself to great highs kink-wise. But if I had to choose a pairing to write, Jaffar/Princess would be, undoubtedly; Torsten/Laura scare the shit of me, and even if they could be more or less be placed in the timecock category (in the fucked up relationship aspect), I don't think I could ever find with them the sort of emotional satisfaction I find with other pairings. So I understand you so much, a writer has to write what they want, not being completely closed to suggestions from readers some times of course, but mainly they have to be happy with what they write and it has to work for them, not exclusively for the author. After all, this is fanfiction what we're talking about here, we don't have a publisher behind us or the sales tyranny to respond to!

It's really funny, because I've told my mum about my stories and have read her the plotty and not-too-porny bits of some of the Jaffar/Princess ones, and have said that they aren't nearly as popular as the evil incestuous murdering nugcase ones, and she has been baffled. But people want dark titillation and fuckage-uppage, and I guess with ToB, it requires more knowledge of the canon, whereas the Devilry ones can be read without knowledge of the movie (although people will miss *so* much if they haven't seen how Torsten moves and speaks and sluts). It really is the kinks and/or a big fandom that bring in the hits and it's very sad that the whole culture of commenting and discussing fic is almost completely dead, now, because the current atmosphere makes way too many allowances for badfic. When everyone can write whatever and nobody tells them their spelling is shit, fewer people are even pressed towards becoming better writers. But I always feel like my audience deserves better, you know? I hate it if the writer thinks I'm stupid or thinks that I'm okay with shitty spelling or horribly unrealistic sex scenes, because I bloody well am not okay with that. So I write the sort of things *I* want to read about, which... well, you've seen what it means: lots of kinky and queer-flavoured het because there is so little good het out there.

But ah well. At least you do care for things like these and it's great that you even bother to talk about them. *HUGS*

Good post! I saw that same thing on Tumblr and I think I really needed that reminder. Sometimes I feel like I don't need to comment on a fic because the author won't care what I think but I know that's the opposite of the truth! Especially since I am *just* a reader, commenting makes me feel good, like I am really doing something helpful for the wonderful writers who bring us so much joy.

Also, I think you're a fabulous commenter. I see you on almost every fic! You're so detailed and thoughtful in your comments. Don't beat yourself up so much, hon! <3 and good luck on all that work! I'm cheering you on every step of the way :D

Sorry sorry for this horribly late reply, but I have been so busy these last months to properly catch up on LJ!

No one is "just a reader", Alli; check my reply to Tamar to see what I think about the role of the reader. The advantage of posting on Internet is that authors can have a relationship with the reader that those who follow the "traditional" ways of sharing their work can't. I haven't met yet a single author who doesn't love to see what their readers think of their stories.

Aaawww thank you so much, but I guess I'm not that good nowadays! I hope I can catch up soon with fics. I try to comment the way I like to have my works commented, but I can't always do that. Thank you <3

Something that I have been thinking about for the past few months. I read. It's a hobby and an escape for me, but I am not a writer myself. I am no where near being someone who can give writing tips and advice. There seems to be certain people who only want constructive criticism on their works. I can't give that out. When I see posts where writers tell them only to have people take apart their stories, I will not leave feedback, even if I loved the story. LJ, Tumblr and AO3 are not writing classes. If you get some constructive feedback- great! But to demand only that is the easiest way for me to nope out of there.

Again, I'm not saying this as a fellow writer but as a reader or consumer. If I give positive feedback or just a 'hey- great job!' there is nothing worse than feeling that the writer doesn't care, which in turns makes me stop responding to their stories. I'm not asking for anything back from them but I just felt that I wanted to tell them that they have an audience and that their work was appreciated. There is nothing wrong with asking for more detailed feedback but to demand it is kinda crappy, IMO and will make me stop responding altogether.

This.

I totally agree with what you're saying here about writer's demanding for one to only pull apart their fics, it definitely makes me reluctant to even read the fic let alone comment... I'm not on these sights to be overly critical or an English teacher, I just want to read for the lazy enjoyment of it :3

Basically i think the most important part about commenting is "I wanted to tell them that they have an audience and that their work was appreciated"; which is why I always try to leave a comment :P

That's pretty much it. If you want constructive feedback, by all means ask. But when you demand it from your readers, that's when I'm out.

Sorry sorry for this horribly late reply, but I have been so busy these last months to properly catch up on LJ!

Do I detect a resentment against me in your words, Jenn? I'm genuinely asking, as I don't know if you're throwing indirects at me (those are so difficult to catch on the Internet). Check my reply to Tamar re: feedback to see my thoughts on the matter. I'd also like to apologise because I think I might have been a bit harsh this past year when asking readers that kind of feedback from my stories, but as they weren't posted, I think my attitude is justified; I hope it didn't make you feel uncomfortable.

Personally, I don't think any writer wouldn't care about feedback, whether it's the "omg" type or a more detailed review. But of course, I can't speak for everybody.

No, it wasn't you and I'm sure I was in a mood when I posted this. Sorry if I came across as bitchy. This sort of thing crops up every once in a while in every fandom I have been in. I just think that if someone took time out of their day to thank a writer for their work, then that's great. Some writers never get feedback and any response is good. Constructive criticism is also good but it irritates me when writers demands that out of their audience. I can only speak for myself and when I leave feedback on a fic I like- then to hear that my response wasn't good enough, I'm not likely to leave feedback again. But this was not focused on you.

Aside from what I said on Jenn's comment...

with commenting it's always great to get comments that're detailed and tell you what especially stood out for the readers. It always makes me reflect on when I was writing and remember what made me add that bit in :3 But then comments that are filled more with "OMG"s and flailing still make me grin madly and let me know that people are out there actually reading and enjoying my stuff.

Though yes, I don't think the whole "tell me so I can use it again" thing is great... It's nice to know what people especially like, but at the end of the day I write according to whatever my brain comes up with and for the enjoyment I get in actually writing, rather than let others dictate my imagination.

As with commenting myself? I tend to always comment on anything I've read, because I know how much it means to the author... Maybe it's also to do with the fact that I'm super talkative and can't NOT give my opinion or a comment on what I enjoyed XD But yes, I also HATE using my phone to comment on LJ, even if it's a great platform for reading, it sucks for commenting! So I usually try wait till I get to a pc to comment. That's the only time I sometimes let a comment or two get away from me, purely because I forget... >_<

What I do find kinda discouraging though, is when authors then don't reply to your comment... it kinda then feels like they don't care :/ And yes, I know this sounds dumb coming from me as I still have a lot to reply to, but I always do reply... It just takes a while :P I try do it when I post the next update to that fic, I won't let myself post until I've replied to the previous one's comments..

Okay... I'm now spamming you with my rambling... see I comment toooo much X_X lol but one last thing: Irene, you always leave lovely comments ;3

<3

What I do find kinda discouraging though, is when authors then don't reply to your comment... it kinda then feels like they don't care
And furthermore it's just polite and good manners. Also it's mutual appreciation and encouraging both sides to give each other what they want. *nods*
I may have missed a few comments in the past when I stopped using Thunderbird and changed mail adresses.

Sorry sorry for this horribly late reply, but I have been so busy these last months to properly catch up on LJ!

What I do find kinda discouraging though, is when authors then don't reply to your comment... it kinda then feels like they don't care :/ I 100% agree with this. As I said to someone above (I don't remember to whom exactly), the Internet allow us to have a relationship with the readers/authors than books don't, so why not to use it? I love replying to comments of my readers, I think it's the least you can do, after all they've taken their time to comment, and as we can consider that as a rare thing nowadays, I think it's only polite to reply back.

Do you think so? I think many times I don't! In fact, the other day I reread "A Choice" and I realised I hadn't left a comment the first time... and I didn't the second time either! Bad Irene! I'll use this comment to make it up: I LOVED THAT FIC! Great atmosphere, very dark, and a good vampires story, the traditional way just how I like it! You make them close to what vampires have always been about: a metaphor of sexual desires, and I loved that. Well done!

Dropping in here to say that I always feel a bit hurt when the author doesn't bother to reply, myself. I know some authors who do that and appear really aloof, like they don't give a shit about their readers, and it's never a good thing. That's why I make a point of responding to each and every comment on my fics (unless it's some obvious flame/troll/spam thing, of course, in which case I delete it). Every single comment from the flaily OMG ones to the detailed analyses is important, and that way, I also get the chance to thank the reader for dropping by and telling me that the story entertained them for a while. I know people are too scared to comment at times, especially if they've read something with such sparkling prose that it makes them feel like they can't even string a decent sentence together in comparison, but seriously, even a loud squeeing "OMG!" is fantastic. Especially if you write in tiny fandoms the way I do--each comment is worth its weight in gold (and I actually value my small fandom comments and kudos way more than the ones in, say, Doctor Who, because they are so much rarer).

especially if they've read something with such sparkling prose that it makes them feel like they can't even string a decent sentence together in comparison This used to be me! I remember when I started reading fics in English, I barely commented because I was scared shitless of my grammar and spelling, and I often added a PS explaining I was learning English and apologising for my mistakes. I can't even remember how I felt when I first commented something by you, but I bet I was even more scared than with other authors, because you were one of my favourites. And when I started with "Ghazal"? Oh man, that was really difficult for me, I felt like a toddler typing! Thanks God I was brave enough to comment, or I wouldn't have met you <3

I'm so very glad you did <3 That's a really good example of what commenting can bring--wonderful friendships you would never have had otherwise :3

I just agree with the importance of feedback, that's exactly why I ALWAYS leave a comment. Only under extreme conditions I don't. Or when I'm marathon reading a fic hehehe

To myself, I usually don't get much feedback and I know how it feels. It's extremelt demotivating, because it feels like no one cares what you write or sth... I don't really know how to explain. It does create a tad of jealousy as well, when you see people from the same 'generation' receive lots of feedback .... And also, one could feel left out :(

Sorry sorry for this horribly late reply, but I have been so busy these last months to properly catch up on LJ!

Or when I'm marathon reading a fic hehehe Same here! I know it isn't exactly an excuse and you could leave a comment on a chapter, but when you're inside the story, you simply can't stop to comment! As long as you always comment in the last chapter posted, I think it's acceptable :P

I agree with you Dom, but I think that shouldn't discourage you to keep writing. You know I barely write in English nowadays, partially due to that, so my fics are in Spanish and believe me, it's a miracle even getting kudos! But I keep writing, because it's what I like and what I enjoy, so don't let anyone make you quit your passion!

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On fanfiction and feedback

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